Ackermann Function without Recursion or Stack. Lot's Flight from Sodom. I quote the following from the article: Four highly acclaimed books, published in conjunction with the Smithsonian Institution: Aspects of Monotheism, Feminist Approaches to the Bible, The Rise of Ancient Israel and The Search for Jesus. Because Lot fled to Zoar to escape the catastrophe which befell the Cities of the Plain (Gn 19:21-23), the town was spared God's judgment. It was a sad ending for Lot, who started out so wealthy he needed to separate his flocks from Abraham, and ended up living in a cave, raped by his own daughters. Sign up to receive our email newsletter and never miss an update. What does seem apparent is that the angels are annoyed by Lot's request (Gen 19:15-22)-- which is another example of Lot not quite coloring between the lines in God's plan. Zoar was close to Sodom (Genesis 19:20) - as are these ruins. E-mail: [emailprotected] Attacking a persons character only goes to prove that the content of YOUR argument is weak. We also know that the Dead Sea level in the time of Abraham (MB2) was approximately the historic low, as today. Sallama (Northern District) 29.39. BTW Bolen places the Patriarchs in the Early Bronze Age which few conservative archaeologist do. 11 So Lot chose for himself the whole plain of the Jordan and set out toward the east. Want this question answered? Abraham and Lot agreed to part ways, with Abraham giving Lot first choice of land. For many of these locations, you will never find a written script because they pre-date writing. Thus, the north (and correctly smaller) river represented is the Wadi Zarqa. The world of the Bible is knowable. Todd Bolen responds to Where is Sodom, Lots Cave Museum at Ancient Zoar (Zoora). According to the Babylonian Talmud, it is five miles distance from Sodom: The Master said: From the time the morning star appears until sunrise Lot talks/argues with the angels. The evil of these cities was incredible and far-reaching. Trinity Southwest University 7600 Jefferson NE, Suite 28 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87109, USA (505) 332-4253 Im also glad to engage in scholarly debate in the pages of BAR on any and all topics related to the subject. I believe in finding things that are said in the Bible, but this might need to be just not find. Sodom and Gomorrah were only two of many kingdoms around the Jordan River valley and the Dead Sea region, also called the Valley of Siddim. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. (This was before the Lord destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.) . 7. Furthermore, radio-carbon dating isnt the only method we use to date things back beyond lets say 50,000 years. Where Were the Old Testament Kings of Ancient Jerusalem Buried? And Abraham sojourned in Gerar Which belonged to the Philistines. Deuteronomy 34:3 and the South, and the Plain of the valley of Jericho the city of palm trees, to Zoar. If sodom is not historic why look for it? - Genesis 19:1 On Youtube there are videos showing towns and structures that had been so heated they turned to ash that cascaded down in the same approx 40degree angle as seen in any industrial dump site. Gen. 13:18) towards Sodom (18:22), presumably eastward to the Dead Sea area of the Rift Valley. In Genesis 18:21 is the LORD's purpose in personally visiting Sodom to see if they will abuse him? Zoar is up to date located at the south end of the dead sea. There are tons of other examples. them and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. Historical records show that it was involved in commercial trade as recently as the 10th century AD. @krissy and others: Required fields are marked *, COPYRIGHT 2023 BIBLICAL ARCHAEOLOGY SOCIETY 5614 Connecticut Ave NW #343, Washington DC 20015-2604. Based on numerous data-sets dealing with ancient Dead Sea levels, its clear that during the Roman and Byzantine Period the level of the Dead Sea was even lower than todayabout -440m. So, yes. This is detailed quite nicely in Neev and Emerys geological work The Destruction of Sodom, Gomorrah and Jericho1 and numerous other geological resources. Your email address will not be published. Since the Universe with all its matter & energy could not have just popped into existence without a cause, the cause logically exists OUTSIDE the known Universe, making this cause transcendent from the Universe, existing outside time, space, matter and energy. It is used in Africa by the elderly ones to explain what truly is real but they dont have its real explanations just to save themselves from I dont know whenever questions about mysterious issues are asked by the younger ones. http://www.amazon.com/review/R3381RLNN8QGOV/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1451684304, My review Archaeologys War on Biblical History for The Kikkar Dialogues (Research & Discovery Series) (Volume 2) on Amazon (06/22/14). Link to first part below . Yes, Zoar was one of the five "cities of the plain" mentioned in Gen 14, along with Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboiim. http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2013/02/arguments-against-locating-sodom-at.html, Thank you for reading! It is also the place where the Biblical writers set their dramatic tale of Sodoms wickedness and destruction (Genesis 19). Zoar, a small town not far from Sodom, somehow escapes the destruction (Gen. 19:20-22). A myth, according to the dictionary, is a commonly-held but false belief, a common misconception; a fictitious or imaginary person or thing; a popular conception about a real person or event which exaggerates or idealizes reality. 55 When that day comes, you and Sodom and Samaria will once again be well-off, and all nearby villages will be restored. Their strategy is to lure the enemy into battle at the valley of Siddim (south of the Dead Sea). Is this taken into account, or am I misunderstanding? Firstly, a), when an assertion is made that something is NOT true, it is incumbent upon the one asserting that the subject in question is not true to show evidence for that assertion when challenged, and, b) it is patently absurd to claim that one cannot prove a negative. Her nobles flee to Zoar, to Eglath Shelishiyah; for they go up by the ascent of Luhith with weeping; for in the way of Horonaim, they raise up a cry of destruction. Genesis 19:30-38 accounts for the origins of the nation of Moab. Other than Israel, no country has as many Biblical sites and associations as Jordan: Mount Nebo, from where Moses gazed at the Promised Land; Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John baptized Jesus; Lots Cave, where Lot and his daughters sought refuge after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah; and many more. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. A Closer Look at Scripture. (Trans.). Eusebius (Onomasticon, 261) locates the Dead Sea between Jericho and Zoar, and speaks of the remnants of the ancient fertility as still visible. Lot chose the land of the plain of Jordan, near Sodom and Gomorrah, because of the rich pastureland there. the king of Goiim, made war with Bera, the king of Sodom, and Birsha, For those who are interested, I have read and written extensively on Tall el-Hammam versus what The Sacred Scriptures detail about Sodom and the other 4 Cities of the Kikkar. Deuteronomy 29:22-23 identifies two of the other cities as Admah and Zeboim, while Genesis 19:23 identifies the final city as Zoar, which is presumably the fifth Beatle in our tortured analogy. The Destruction of Sodom: What We Have Learned from Tall El-Hammam and Its Neighbors. While driving @ 70km per hour from Zoar to Pretoria , you will get there in 16 Hours 57 minutes. I forgot there were 5 cities and not just Sodom and Gomorrah. You hold steadfastly to the chronology of Archbishop Usher without fully analyzing the consequences of that position. There surely isnt a better alternative location for Sodom. A version of this post first appeared in Bible History Daily in 2013. . His statement that I fail to realize that the territory of Moab forbidden to Israel was in the heights above the Rift Valley, and that the Rift Valley and the Dead Sea are distinct regions, which were not forbidden, to Israel as far as Zoar is just wishful thinking. Learn how to say Zoar with EmmaSaying free pronunciation tutorials.Definition and meaning can be found here:https://www.google.com/search?q=define+Zoar If this is not the case, then the Madaba Map would have to be declared a geographical distortion unusable for cartographic purposes. When Lot became drunk, his daughters seduced him. The first site was proposed as the lost city of Sodom in 1973. For example, if one claims that a gun does NOT exist in their pocket, it is quite easy to prove that this negative assertion is true or false, simply by visually examining the inside of the pocket. Genesis 19:23-26 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. Rodkinson, M. L. Disagreeing is not an end all. Im glad to give BAR readers an update on the Tall el-Hammam/Sodom excavations if they request it. Zoar was not destroyed by God "not long after" Sodom was destroyed. When they came to Canaan, the servants of Abraham and Lot argued over grazing areas for their large herds of livestock. It would be great. 20 Look, that city is near enough to flee to, and it is a little one. The mountains of Sodom are located on the south-west side of the Dead Sea, along Road #90, between the Dead Sea Works plant 11KM and Nachal Zohar to the north. I think BAR has moderated its position over the years, becoming less biased against Scripture and opening the door to work done by those who presuppose the veracity of Scripture. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Is Sodom related to Pompeii (present day- in Italy Rome)? Shalom! Imagine a week after the event, Lot is walking around a field somewhere and someone recognizes him as one of the 'mayors' of Sodom (go with me on this). This provided a walkable shelf-like shoreline as a relatively easy route between the two. Biblical Archaeology Review carried an article about this about a year back, as [], [] month it will receive the widest hearing to date. OK, lets get something straight. Wes, you are right that the long ages in Genesis fit the common practice in antiquity of exaggerating lifespans to give honor to ancient ancestors. Note the parallel with Abraham pleading for Sodom. Romans 11:13-23; Ephesians 3:1-6, 4:11-16). Conder, who vigorously maintains that the Vale of Siddim is at the north end of the Dead Sea, looks favorably upon theory of W.H. The story has some cause to be in the Bible; can an archeology discover it? Collins responded to reader Shirley S. Reeds question on the location of Zoar. Jesus) It's possible he was frightened of that knowledge or perhaps thugs were looking for him or maybe he was being put up for new mayor of Zoar or any number or reputation-based things. As a result, on April 19, 1819, the group formed the Society of . And it happened that in the days of Amraphel, the king of Shinar, The Roman/Byzantine Zoar is in the same vicinity, just south of where the Wadi Mujib/Arnon empties into the Dead Sea. The Dead Sea? If we fix upon the south end of the Dead Sea as the Vale of Siddim, a very natural place for Zoar and one which agrees with all the traditions would be at the base of the mountains of Moab, East of Wady Ghurundel, where there is still a well-watered oasis several miles long and 2 or 3 wide, which is probably but a remnant of a fertile plain once extending out over a considerable portion of the shallow south end of the Dead Sea when, as shown elsewhere (see DEAD SEA), the water level was considerably lower than now.Robinson would locate it on the northeast corner of el-Lisan on the borders of the river Kerak, but this was done entirely on theoretical grounds which would be met as well in the place just indicated, and which is generally fixed upon by the writers who regard the Vale of Siddim as at the south end of the Dead Sea. Birch that the place is represented by the present Tell Shaghur, a white rocky mound at the foot of the Moab Mountains, a mile East of Beth-haram (Tell er-Rameh), 7 miles Northeast of the mouth of the Jordan, a locality remarkable for its stone monuments and well-supplied springs, but he acknowledges that the name is more like the Christian Segor than the original Zoar.George Frederick Wright. He assumes that the large river representation on the map just north of Zoora (Zoar) is the Zered. A fault line runs right through the Dead Sea. Based on apparently where Abraham and Lot were located as they both viewed the well watered Jordan valley, they would have been viewing the north end of the Dead Sea. In fact, Genesis 13:11 reads that Lot journeyed eastward. There is no indication, at least in Genesis 13 that Lot traveled in a southern direction. Travel with us on our journey into the past in our free eBook Exploring Jordan. rev2023.3.1.43269. ), two cities in the "plain" of the Jordan, usually mentioned together and sometimes with Admah, Zeboiim, and Bela, which is identified with Zoar. The locations on the map noted by Schlegel are among them. The dead sea did not exist before the destruction of those cities. The name Zoar means "little" or "insignificant.". The two foremost theories for the genesis of the Universe are chance and God, and since chance does NOT meet these requirements, and God does, then obviously God is the best possible explanation for the genesis of all things. The promise God made to Lot to preserve the city was fulfilled. 2. Fig 2 below shows the excavation site of the known traditional location of the "Sanctuary of Lot" in . But in this case, the holy book (Bible) has given us an understanding and an idea about the place called Sodom and Gomorah thousand years before archaeologists now gave us the exact location Thus, the reverse is the case with myth. For further reading and documentation, I highly recommend my detailed article answering Mr. Schlegel at tallelhammam.com under Related Publications.. Read about Lot and his family, along with the pending destruction (c. 2000 BC) of the kingdoms of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the three associated cities of Admah, Zeboim, and Zoar, 2 in Genesis, chapter 19, but start first, a little before that, in Genesis 18 to get the full context of the events. Perhaps youll never quite look at things the same way again. Genesis 19:30, ESV: Now Lot went up out of Zoar and lived in the hills with his two daughters, for he was afraid to live in Zoar.So he lived in a cave with his two daughters. Below, read Bill Schlegels commentary on the location of Zoar along with Steven Collinss response. The site of Tall el-Hammam in my opinion is by far the best candidate for the site of Sodom, destroyed in the Middle Bronze Age on the Kikkar of the Jordan visible from the region of Ai. I have bookmarked it for later! Plane describes the location of the cities of interest. Before God destroyed these cities, He sent two angels to Lot . In that specific part, I get the impression Lot was expecting people from Sodom would act as they did. inhabitants it was burnt by lightning; in consequence of which there 2017-12-19 06:11:31. Nathanael, I appreciate your posting of material that challenges the author and airs your thoughts on the matter. Other than Israel, no country has as many Biblical sites and associations as Jordan: Mount Nebo, from where Moses gazed at the Promised Land; Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John baptized Jesus; Lots Cave, where Lot and his daughters sought refuge after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah; and many more. Sodom and Gomorrah along with the cities of Admah, Zeboiim, and Zoar (Bela) constituted the five "cities of the plain," and they are referenced throughout both the Old and New Testament and the Qurn. Pt. The geographical argument for Tall el-Hammam being Sodom is a lock at every turn. The works of Josephus: complete and unabridged (p. 687). Both conceived and bore children. Radiocarbon analysis yields a destruction date of 1700 /-50 BCE (which is also well-confirmed by the pottery). The Rift Valley and the Dead Sea are distinct regions which were not forbidden to Israel as far as Zoar.. Perhaps Zoar escaped the conflagration because there is no bitumen to the southeast of the Dead Sea. Additionally, the sharing of Sodom and Gomorrahs fate was not to breed disdain towards the LGBT community, it speaks to all sorts of intrinsically planted sin. The stories of Sodom and its destruction, whether historical or not, were clearly understood to have occurred near the Dead Sea, among the so-called cities of the plain mentioned in Genesis 13, verse 12. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. As Neev and Emery state: As Zoar of the first century A.D. was a seaport, it had to be on the shore and must have been north of [the paved Roman road traversing the Lisan] or near the head of the Bay of Mazraa [at the south end of the north basin]. Many things here seem to fit correctly except for the date.it seems to me that this city was destroyed ( as dated by the researchers) a few centuries AFTER the time of Abraham. Its exactly where its supposed to be, including being virtually due east of Hebron on the map! The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah has also become an idiom in Hebrew: 'mahapechat S'dom vaAmora'. The first most important source for locating Sodom and Gomorrah is the location of Zoar ( see more) and Lot's cave and is from the mosaic map on the floor of a church in Madaba, Jordan, known as the Madaba map and as shown in Fig 1 below. I don't doubt that God had full control to destroy or not destroy cities as He fully sees fit so their isn't anything about the size of the city of Zoar that spared it. It was several miles above the northern end of the Dead Sea, past Jericho. ?And Samaria. It was of old a most happy land After Lot and his daughters escaped from Sodom, they lived in a cave in the hills near Zoar. Each issue of Biblical Archaeology Review features lavishly illustrated and easy-to-understand articles such as: Fascinating finds from the Hebrew Bible and New Testament periods, The latest scholarship by the world's greatest archaeologists and distinguished scholars, Stunning color photographs, informative maps, and diagrams, Reviews of the latest books on biblical archaeology, 45+ years of Biblical Archaeology Review, 20+ years of Bible Review online, providing critical interpretations of biblical texts. Lot, etc. Isaiah 15:5 My heart cries out for Moab! "Sure, okay, but aren't Sodom and Gomorrah still the ones that get destroyed?" you may be wondering. "It is written (say the Gemarists), 'The sun was risen upon the earth, when Lot entered into Sodom.'--Now Sodom was four miles from Zoar." They go into great detail why I made my statement. quickly, for I cannot do this thing until you get there. That God punishes the wicked is all over the Bible; St.Paul in many letters condemns perverts. Steven Collins, Bill Schlegel is associate professor of Bible at The Masters College, Israel Bible Extension (IBEX), where he teaches Biblical history, geography and Hebrew. In this article it states that, We also know that the Dead Sea level in the time of Abraham (MB2) was approximately the historic low, as today., but how is that possible when Josephus, when speaking of the dead sea states, And when they were come over against Sodom, they pitched their camp at the vale called the Slimepits: for at that time there were pits in that place: but now, upon the destruction of the city of Sodom, that vale became the Lake Asphaltites a.k.a. God Bless! Steven Collins is director of the Tall el-Hammam Excavation Project and dean of the College of Archaeology and Biblical History at Trinity Southwest University in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where he also serves as curator of its ancient Near East collections. The location of Sodom and Gomorrah has intrigued readers of the Bible for centuries. The Bay of Mazraa was always the main, if not the only, natural deepwater haven If Zoar were at Es-Safi, it never could have functioned as an efficient harbor.. Genesis 14:2 that they made war with Bera, king of Sodom, and with Birsha, king of Gomorrah, Shinab, king of Admah, and Shemeber, king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (the same is Zoar). Geisler, Norman L., and Joseph M. Holden. servants house, and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may one. Heres what we have to understand about using science to back up the Bible. The authors briefly mention the consistency of the Sodom and Gomorrah as recorded in Genesis. That the sound of [Moabs] cry rises from Heshbon to Elealeh and Jahaz, from Zoar as far as Horonaim and Eglath Shelishiyah (Jer 48:34) indicates, in this sorth-to-south sequence, that Zoar is in the middle of the (then) Moabite territory (in a time when the northern border of Moab had moved north to include Heshbon). According to Smith's Bible Dictionary, Sodom was one of the most ancient cities of Syria. Two angels appearing as men were staying with Lot when the men of Sodom surrounded Lot's house and demanded that Lot surrender the angels in the guise of men . Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for professors, theologians, and those interested in exegetical analysis of biblical texts. Dr. Craig Olson has written an excellent article Which Site is Sodom addressing the location of Sodom, the long lifespans and the sojourn, I highly recommend it. The location of Zoar has much to do with that of the cities of the Plain or Valley of Siddim, with which it is always connected. both for the fruits it bore and the riches of its cities, although it plain is actually the right word to use for geography. Zoar, it would seem, was a safe enough distance from Sodom so as not to suffer any collateral damage. Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the LORD out of heaven. First inhabited during the Chalcolithic period (46003600 B.C.E. Escape there Rather it should be, whether one believes they are historical or not. We believe in Jesus, and assumedly have put our trust in Him, and try to follow Gods Pure Word. All agree that Sodom existed in the Early Bronze age (Gen 10) the Question of importance is when was it destroyed (Middle Bronze Age Gen 13). The site is so large that is can now be called a city state (62 acres, while Jerusalem and Jericho at the time were only 10 acres). It was then in intimate connection with the cities of the "plain of Jordan" Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim (see also 13:10; but not 10:19)- and its king took part with the kings of those towns in the battle with the Assyrian host which ended in their defeat and the capture of Lot. Sign up to receive our email newsletter and never miss an update. . Answer (1 of 20): I know many who will read this do not take the Bible's story of Sodom and Gomorrah seriously, but I hope you will investigate what I am about to say for yourself to see if it is true. If one placed Zoar on the Arnon/Wadi Mujib, then, it could be labeled Zared!. Q&C: Geographically Puzzled. Most archeologists have sought these cities in the southern Ghor, although a few think they were farther north. Genesis 18-19: The destruction of the Sodom city-cluster describes a journey of angels from the region of Hebron (18:1; cf. If you want to meet halfway between Hebron, NB and Zoar, NF or just make a stop in the middle of your trip, the exact coordinates of the halfway point of this route are 48.791752 and -69.053001, or 48 47' 30.3072" N, 69 3' 10.8036" W. This location is 673.65 miles away from Hebron, NB and Zoar, NF and it would take approximately 14 hours 57 . http://www.amazon.com/review/R3RYEFE6CD7HQA/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=061590999X, My 11-part response to Dr. Collins comments on Biblical Problems with Collinss attempt to move Zoar from near the mouth of the Zered to near the mouth of the Arnon is faulty as well (by the way, the Arnon River is depicted on the Madaba Map, further north). 25:8-9).Yahweh applied His FORMULA 10 times in 70 Weeks Prophecy. The evil of these locations, you will get there in 16 Hours 57 minutes of! Will never find a written script because they pre-date writing LORD rained Sodom..., he sent two angels to Lot and they ate consequences of that position BCE... 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Testament Kings of Ancient Jerusalem Buried ( Zoar ) is the Wadi Zarqa 18:22,! Also the place where the biblical writers set their dramatic tale of Sodoms wickedness and destruction ( Genesis 19.. The Philistines Emerys geological work the destruction of the Bible, but this might need to be in the for. Of Sodoms wickedness and destruction ( gen. 19:20-22 ) part ways, with Abraham Lot. The Arnon/Wadi distance from sodom to zoar, then, it would seem, was a enough! When that day comes, you will get there in 16 Hours 57 minutes became drunk his. Your feet ; then you may one expecting people from Sodom So as to. 57 minutes when they came to Canaan, the sun had risen over the land of the known location... Area of the Jordan and set out toward the east ] Attacking a persons character only goes to prove the... 70 Weeks Prophecy collateral damage script because they pre-date writing conservative archaeologist do the Wadi Zarqa you! 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