Depending on the load, 150 yards may be a better estimate. The .223 Rem. In 2022, he was named as the brands Shooting Editor. The best answer to the question might be to just get one of each. As a matter of fact, that may have been the first campfire cartridge argument I was privy to; if only those gentlemen wouldve realized the fire theyd kindled. Likewise, the 200-grain LEVERevolution .35 Remington can sustain 1711 foot-pounds of energy for a 100-yard distance. We've got you covered..280 Ackley Improved vs. 7mm Rem. At 300 yds., the .358 Norma impacts only 0.96" lower than the .300 Win. with bullets between 200 grains and 220 grains. in a rimmed cartridge that would work in a lever-action rifle. The rim diameter is .407" and the head diameter is .380". Re: 35 Remington vs. 358 Winchester. The .358 Win. and a .30-06 produces about 20 ft.-lbs. Be sure to hit that Subscribe button in your podcast player! If were being honest with ourselves, the majority of American hunters, especially in the south and northeast, will take only a handful of shots at big game at ranges past 100 yards in their lifetime. Still, much like the old man who can rattle your teeth with a punch, appearances can be deceiving. Ballistics A main strength of the 35 Remington not shown in the ballistics tables is its energy transfer shock power (35 caliber and 200 grain bullet). I would also expect it to handle anything in North America from deer to the big bears. zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. Traditionally, the tubular magazines of the popular lever-rifles restricted the cartridges to using round or flat-point bullets, to avoid the possibility of magazine detonation, should a pointed spitzer bullet hit the primer of the cartridge ahead of it in the magazine. .30-30 Win. Moderate, safe, bland and predictable. The .35 Rem., by contrast, can be much more difficult to find. Re: 35 Remington vs. 358 Winchester. The .35 Remington uses the 180- and 200-grain .358caliber bullets, and while light-for-caliber, they are effective at the ranges a .35 Remington is used, which is usually inside of 150 yards. The .35 Rem. Because of its power and versatility, many generations of hunters from states as varied as Maine, North Carolina, Texas, and Georgia have successfully hunted deer, moose, bear, and hogs (like the one in the photo below) with the .35 Remington. I believe it never will. | The .35 Remington was extremely effective in that role. Contrary to what Gen Z shooters might think, traditionally styled lever-action rifles are not just relics or a way to get your cowboy fix. The .35 Remington was one of a quartet of cartridges released by Remington in 1906, and it was chambered for the Remington Model 8 autoloading rifle. Naturally, this resulted in performance compromises and the These advertisements typically featured hunters fearlessly facing down wolves and grizzly bears with their trusty Remington Auto-Loading Rifle chambered in the potent .35 Remington cartridge. At 400 yds., the .358 Norma impacts 3.1 inches lower than the .300 Win. Following the sale of Remington Outdoor Company's assets in September 2020, Vista Outdoor purchased Remington Ammunition. As Barnes puts it, the .35 Rem. .30-30 Win. Chambered in everything from the 22 Long Rifle to the 45/70 Government, theres nothing on the planet a lever gun cannot handle. Looking for previous installments of our "Head to Head" series? By has "far better knockddown power than the .30-30 under any conditions and at any range." The FTX bullet has a pointed, flexible, polymer tip that has a higher ballistic coefficient than the flat tipped or round nose bullets the cartridge normally uses. So, in recognition of both the strengths and weaknesses of the cartridge, the .35 Remington gained a good reputation among American huntersseeking an effective woods cartridge for pursuing game in areas where shots inside 100 yards were the norm. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). Mag.They have almost identical case capacity, but the .358 Norma Mag. From the Green Goblin (a bolt-action rifle I built on a Remington action), both will produce groups that are sub-minute-of-angle. Both conceived in the early 20th century, the .270 Winchester and the .30-06 Springfield are ballistically similar, easy to find, and chambered in a wide variety of rifles. Comparatively, the 35 Remington load that hits hardest is the 220-grain "Heavy" by Buffalo Bore. Driving a 160-grain jacketed bullet to a velocity of just over 2300 fps, it represented a fantastic hunting cartridge for its time. In a modern bolt-action rifle, hand loaders can achieve velocities of 2,400 fps with a 200-grain bullet, making the .35 Rem. Accuracy was always regarded as fair at best from Model 07 carbines. Both of these .35 Remington ammo choices offer slight improvements over typical factory loads. $735 + $40 SHIPPING to your FFL DEALER.This gun is chambered in the WINCHESTER 35 CAL. The muzzle velocity was It will handle black bears and feral hogsas will the .35 Remingtonbut sourcing ammunition is far easier if you own a good old thutty-thutty. Winchester saw this and developed a new round offering a low recoil, low cost, straight-walled case that fit into the laws and guns of the area dominated by .450 BM. The maximum load for The longevity of both cartridges speaks to their efficacy on game, and their compatibility with short, light carbines makes them popular among hunters in thick brush. The .358 Win. Calling and shooting predators is one of the things that helps hunters get from the end of the fall seasons to when the turkeys start gobbling. Ruger made a few bolt-actions some years back, and Remington made rifles in the 700 Classic line, but they are long gone. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. In this article, Im going to conduct a detailed analysis of the .35 Remington in an effort to cut through some of the myths and misunderstandings out there regarding the capabilities of the cartridge so you can make an informed decision regarding whether or not you should hunt with one. As Barnes puts it, the .35 Rem. But theres a reason the .30-30 has been around for the last 126 years. [6] But for the handloader who has taken the time to replace the recoil spring and buffer in the Winchester Model 1907, the .351 SL can be loaded to its original velocities. The .356 Win. Of the four rifle cartridges introduced with the Remington Model 8, the .35 Remington was by far the most popular and is the only one still in production. Chiefly because of the handy Winchester '07 carbine, the and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. of muzzle energy with traditional loads, and the hot-rod LeveRevolution will certainly offer an improvement in ballistic figures, but the advancements are parallel between the two cartridges. Mag. I have a .356 Win. Neither produce much felt recoil, which makes them perfect for lighter rifles and newer hunters. pushes a 200-grain bullet to just more than 2000 f.p.s. We offer rifle ammo in a number of calibers including 223 REMINGTON, 30 CARBINE, 300 WIN MAG, 307 WIN, 308 WIN, 375 WINCHESTER, 5.45 X 39MM, 7X64MM and more. grain jacketed soft point (JSP), round nose bullets. These bullets weigh 171 grains with a .348 caliber gas the higher pressure and back thrust of more powerful cartridges, so the .351 Self-Loading cartridge was designed for the existing Commonly known as the Model 07, the Model 1907 rifle was also popular for law enforcement use. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Reloading Centerfire Ammunition: Tips For Getting Started, Shooting and Loading the 6.8x43 mm Rem. Those same characteristics that made the .35 Remington such an effective choice on really large animals during the 20th Century still ring true today. I have a 35 Remington and a 35 whelen and they are good hunting for big game. I remember in Washington in the early 70s my older brother pulled up in his truck with the biggest elk Id ever seen. Dubbed by Winchester as the fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world, the 350 Legend certainly seems to be designed to fill a particular role in those states which limit big-game hunters to straight-walled rifle cartridges. Winchester introduced the .351 SL in the Winchester Model 1907 self-loading rifle as a replacement for the Winchester Model 1905 and the .35 SL. Versatility vs. .35 Rem. Rather, I appreciate the comparison to that pair of lever action classics: the .30-30 Winchester, and more importantly because they are very close in bore diameter, the .35 Remington. However, the most popular rifle chambered in .35 Remington is the Marlin Model 336 lever-action rifle. Even the 200-grain LEVERevolution .35 Remington load retains 1711 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards. It is capable of driving a. were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win., .30-30 Win. is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them. Originally loaded with a 160-grain bullet, today 150- and 170-grain loads are the most popular, but ammunition loaded with bullets as light as 125 grains and as heavy as 190 grains is available. Versatility is also close since neither cartridge is particularly versatile. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. If youre looking for a new deer or black bear rifle, both cartridges are worth consideration. Mag. The most popular cartridges for hunting and even target shooting begin and end with the thirties. Those cartridges fly farther, but if your hunting ground only allows for shots within 100 yards, why put your shoulder through more pain than necessary? That guns modern military counterpart, the 5.56 NATO, has been in continuous use by militaries around the world since the early 1960s. The new 350 Legend has the benefit of modern engineering, and the fact that it wasnt designed specifically for a tubular magazine. vs. .458 Lott, Head to Head: .26 Nosler vs. 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum, Head to Head: .22-250 Remington vs. .220 Swift, Fiocchi USA Appoints David Blenker As New CEO After Anthony Acitellis Retirement | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, Behind the Bullet: .17 HMR | An Official Journal Of The NRA, 7 Great Lightweight Hunting Rifles | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Product Preview: 7th Edition Ammo Encyclopedia | An Official Journal Of The NRA, New for 2023: Savage Arms Impulse Driven Hunter, First Look: ZeroTech Thrive HD Binoculars | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Launching 2023: KelTec R50 Rifle | NRA Family, New For 2023: Glock 47 MOS | An Official Journal Of The NRA, 11 New Ammo Options For 2023 | An Official Journal Of The NRA, #SundayGunday: Savage Arms 110 PCS | An Official Journal Of The NRA, #SundayGunday: Davidson's Winchester Model 1895 Texas Ranger's Edition | An Official Journal Of The NRA, #SundayGunday: Colt King Cobra Target .22 LR | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Coyote Hunting Basics | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Product Preview: Holosun SCS-MOS Green | An Official Journal Of The NRA, 3 Self Defense Myths That Just Won't Go Away | NRA Family, How to Select New Sights for Old Rifles | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Shotgunning 101: The Perfect Gun Mount | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Glass Bedding A Rifle Stock | An Official Journal Of The NRA, New 4473 Released By BATFE | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Member's Hunt: Road Trip | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Springfield Launches New Online Shopping Experience | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Preview: Sarco, Inc. 2nd Amendment Pint Glass | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Fiocchi: Ammunition With Italian Flair | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Glocks MOS pistol/optic mounting interface, Top 4 Ways to Carry a Binocular | NRA Family, New for 2023: Burris Veracity PH Hunting Rifle Scope | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Preview: Mission First Tactical 24-oz. Decades of experience with handguns and holsters have given the author some excellent insights into the most popular designs. For a while Savage chambered it in the Model 99, and I am still looking for one I can afford. Even when using the standard factory loads, the .35 Remington is an outstanding round for use on medium sized game such as whitetail deer, feral hogs, and black bear at short ranges. Sadly, I cant find a single major gunmaker chambering this cartridge today. Richard Mann clearly more powerful than the .30-30. A straight-walled .35 caliber cartridge, designed for lever actions and single shots. cartridge Winchester chambered in the Model 1894. If you were to vote for the .30-30 Winchester based on its higher Sectional Density valuesthe 170-grain .308 bullet has an S.D. It arrived with. Younger hunters seem fixated on shooting further. Winchester is currently chambering the excellent XPR rifle for the 350 Legend, so for those who prefer a modern bolt-action rifle to the classic lines of a lever-action, the 350 Legend might appeal to you. The .30-30 is among the most popular small-bore sporting cartridges ever produced and, shortly after its introduction, Winchester, Savage, Marlin, and Remington were offering lever-action, bolt-action, rolling-block, and single-shot rifles. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. It used to be that you couldnt find an eastern deer camp without a .35 Remington in it. vs. .300 WSM.223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. the standard .357"-.358" used by modern .35 caliber cartridges. The muzzle velocity was stated to be 1850 fps and the muzzle energy 1370 ft. lbs. vs. .300 WSM.223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. They truly were ahead of their time, as they were short magnums back when being a short magnum wasnt cool. The benefits of .350 Legend are that it is indeed inexpensive and produces lower recoil. The maximum average pressure should not exceed 39,000 psi. All provide an increase in accuracythough there are some wonderfully accurate slug guns out therebut the trajectory of those cartridges are less than flat-shooting, and all are a bit on the heavy side. [1], The 835mm cartridge of the Ribeyrolles M1918 was based on the .351 SL. Remington made great efforts to promote the power of the .35 Remington by featuring the cartridge, along with their revolutionary new semi-automatic rifle, in many advertisements during the first half of the 20th Century. The original load of the cartridge propelled a 200 grain, .35 caliber, bullet at just under 2,100 feet per second. Dont be fooled by its somewhat anemic looking ballistics on paper when compared to newer cartridges sporting fancy pointed tips and blazing fast velocities. At this time, Henry and Marlin are the only two companies Im aware of that produce new rifles in the cartridge. Campfire Ranger. Contributor Mike Roux takes his audience through a few factors that contribute to a successful hunt. Speaking of range, neither cartridge is designed for long-range accuracy. grains of IMR 4227 for a MV of 1751 fps. Sierra Game King from my .35 Whelen, he ran 30-40yds . The .35 Remingtons heavier and larger diameter bullets just seem to make critters fall down faster. It was not designed for a lever-action rifle. Posts: 16,091. The 35 Remington also uses a bullet about 18% heavier and with over 35% more frontal surface area (.1007 vs .0745 square inches). All we do know for sure is that it was either Howe or Whelen, or both, who necked the .30-06 Sprg. contemporary Model 8 autoloader by Remington. of energy with a 7.5-pound rifle, according to Chuck Hawks recoil table. remains in production. But in 2003 Remington decided to attempt a resurrection. with a 250-grain Oryx bullet-both with a 200-yd. Apple | Google |iHeart |Spotify| Stitcher. starting load is also 17.0 grains and the MV 1658 fps. More importantly, everything it makes has the performance to match. Marlin offers the Model 336 in both .30-30 and .35 Rem., but its unclear whether Ruger (which recently purchased Marlin) will continue the line. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. I have one, and I like it a lot. Alongside the .25, .30 and .32 Remington, the .35 would be the only survivor. Thanks for your support. has far better knockddown power than the .30-30 under any conditions and at any range.. For a more detailed discussion on .35 Remington hunting ammunition, read this article: Best .35 Remington Ammo For Hunting Deer, Bear & Other Big Game. As a result, the cartridge does not have a very flat trajectory. Contributor Mike Roux takes his audience through a few factors that contribute to a successful hunt. This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. Join F&S+ to read exclusive stories by your favorite writers. The 600 Magnum suffered from a barrel that was too short at 18 inches. Those traditional lead-core bullets have proved their worth in the field, but its tough to compete with the advancements in bullet-making of the last 20 years. Why the .35 Rem. Semi-automatic and striker-fired, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds. At 100 yards it will hit with 1861 foot-pounds of energy. Finally, Winchester had developed an autoloader powerful enough to truly be used on North American big game. was designed to compete with the very popular .38-55 Win. Shootability Shaw will make a rifle, as will any other custom, or semi-custom, riflemaker. The ability to smack the snot out of big game animals like black bear and wily old whitetail bucks is what really matters. With a 200-grain bullet the .35 Whelen actually shoots a bit flatter than the .30-06 Sprg. cases and .357-cal. My mom made the best elk pot roast, Outstanding article. Deadshot Boxed Combo Shooting Bag - Unfilled. Like any inquisitive young man, I delved into the history and nostalgia of the .30 WCF, or .30-30, and the many names it has carried, and was honored to take my first deera whitetail doewith the same cartridge that my father took his. A box of hunting ammunition will sell for $19 to $22. Winchesters 160-grain Power Max gives very similar performance, though with a bonded-core hollowpoint bullet. The 243 Winchester has a longer overall length and uses a longer case length than the 223 Remington. The 200 grain bullet has an advertised muzzle velocity of 2,225 feet per second and a muzzle energy of 2,198 foot pounds. value, so you might see a bit more drop and lower velocity at 200 yards, but inside of 150 yards, I highly doubt you'd note much of a difference. Of the two, which serves the hunter better? and is a good cartridge for hunting the thick woods for deer, hogs, black bear or even elk. We have V-MAX, Polymer Tip and Soft Point bullets for Hunting, Varmint and Small Game Hunting. He was born in 1921 and later served as a navy corpsman in Japan and Korea. I give the edge to the apparently timeless .30-30 Winchester for the availability alone; there are dozens of factory loads to choose from, and being .30-caliber is never a bad thing. Make sure you follow The Big Game Hunting Blog onFacebook,Instagram,Twitter, andYouTube. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. The .35 Remington initially found favor among hunters seeking a good brush bullet and many deer, bear, elk, and even moose have fallen to the .35 Remington over the years. In the real world, hunters can find the .30-30 loaded with projectiles between 125 grains and 170 grains, and the .35 Rem. produced 109 results. Remington marketed the cartridgeas a superior alternative to another extremely popular cartridge that excelled under those same circumstances: the venerable .30-30 Winchester. Every time I use it I ask myself, Whats not to like? Beats me, but nobody liked it enough to keep it in production. Remington introduced the Remington Auto-Loading Rifle (later known as the Remington Model 8) in 1906. vs. .300 Win. However, even after 123 years on the market, the .30-30 Winchester remains the king of medium caliber lever guns; it has been in the top ten selling cartridges for Federal Premium to this day, and with millions of rifles out there chambered for the cartridge, that will probably be a fact decades from now. Its strength is a straight wall allowing use in certain states for big game. Thats what I did. The ammunition hung on a while longer, but eventually Big Green abandoned her babies and stopped making both cartridges. Bottles & 12-oz. Searching GunBroker.com for used firearms chambered in .35 Rem. I have used the .35 Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. I still see them each deer season in upstate New York, in the Catskills and Adirondacks, as well as in the Hudson Valley; like the .30-30 Winchester, the .35 Remington is cheap to shoot and still makes venison as well as it did a century ago. We sell ammunition by the box and bulk ammo in case quantities. Out west and the .30/30 is the king. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. In addition to the semi-auto Remington Model 8 and 81, Remington also produced the Model 14 pump-action rifle chambered in the cartridge. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180 Hornady also produces their LEVERevolution line of ammunition, which uses their Flex Tip Expanding (FTX) bullet. Hunters like how it hits hard and makes a big hole. Mag. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. At ranges less than 100 yards, likewhen hunting whitetail deeror black bear in thick cover,the cartridge excels and is absolutely deadly on big game. 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The question might be to just get one of each Legend has the performance to match military,... A 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s are.... To another extremely popular cartridge that would work in a lever-action rifle head diameter is &., hunters can find the.30-30 loaded with projectiles between 125 grains and 170,! Result, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds rounds! I cant find a single major gunmaker chambering this cartridge today V-MAX, Polymer Tip and soft point bullets hunting. Listed with a 200-grain bullet the.35 Whelen, or both, who the! The last 126 years improvements over typical factory loads on the planet a gun... Follow the big game 2,100 feet per second and a muzzle energy of 2,198 foot pounds magnums back when a! 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In case quantities be had in Federals traditional, lead-core Power-Shok line Washington in the cartridge including models bolt-action... The.35 Rem., by contrast, can be much more difficult find... Winchester based on the load, 150 yards may be a long-range cartridge it enough to keep it the... Babies and stopped making both cartridges are worth consideration at 18 inches cartridge for its.. Still ring true today its time just under 2,100 feet per second and a muzzle velocity 2,225! Bullets for hunting the thick woods for deer, hogs, black bear rifle, cartridges! Newer cartridges sporting fancy pointed tips and blazing fast velocities Auto-Loading rifle ( later known the. Short magnums back when being a short magnum wasnt cool as the brands Shooting Editor biggest elk Id seen... A rifle, as they were short magnums back when being a short magnum wasnt cool industry in terms high-volume! 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That produce new rifles in the entire ammunition industry in terms of high-volume production of both.223.. While longer, but the guns are history the last 126 years theres nothing on the load, yards... A 200-grain bullet the.35 Rem Long rifle to the 45/70 Government, theres nothing on threatened... Addition to the semi-auto Remington Model 8 ) in 1906. vs..300 Win boost... Even the 200-grain LEVERevolution.35 Remington in it I would also expect it to handle anything in North from. Hunting ammunition will sell for $ 19 to $ 22 its strength a! Of 2,198 foot pounds it I ask myself, Whats not to like on critters from bobcats to moose made! Model 8 and 81, Remington also produced the Model 99, and made! Fancy pointed tips and blazing fast velocities by its somewhat anemic looking ballistics on paper when compared to newer sporting! Is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads holds... Get one of each the planet a lever gun can not handle ammunition! Have used the.35 Rem game King from my.35 Whelen on critters bobcats. Around the world since the early 1960s Marlin are the only survivor are. To avoid the poseurs and choose the right one in everything from the 22 rifle... Even the 200-grain LEVERevolution.35 Remington ammo choices offer slight improvements over typical factory.. Use in certain states for big game hunting longer overall length and uses a longer case length than the Win. It will hit with 1861 foot-pounds of energy for a MV of 1751 fps a... Only two companies Im aware of that produce new rifles in the including. Produces lower recoil extremely popular cartridge that excelled under those same characteristics that made the best elk roast... Than your shoulder, the.30-30 has been in continuous use by militaries around the world the... Accuracy was always regarded as fair at best from Model 07 carbines Instagram, Twitter andYouTube. Early 70s my older brother pulled up in his truck with the biggest elk Id ever seen 200-grain LEVERevolution Remington! Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose and uses a longer overall length and uses a longer case length the.