If one is dealing with public preaching its irrelevant. I know lots of sincere believers who practice infant baptism. But since Hollywood and the media/culture in general are winning in making it look like anyone who thinks it isnt are big bad bullies, well, I guess it makes if the du jour topic st the moment amongst those so called Christians who want to be cool and maybe just maybe more accepted by the world and then hey look Im getting more famous and earning more money-just a thought.. I wonder if anyone on here is going to change anyones mind. On her Instagram page, Hatmaker posted touching photos from Austin Pride Week, with the caption: "My beloved little church went downtown to the #AustinPrideParade and gave out Free Mom Hugs, Free Dad Hugs, Free Grana Hugs, and Free Pastor Hugs like it was our paying jobs. Thats the theological belief that God predestines some for heaven and some for hell. She and her husband planted Austin New Church in an economically and ethnically diverse . I agree with you, Mike. Two different categories. Lets focus on how the devil is using each and everyone of us in order to win good people over to his side. FMCUSA: the Free Methodist Church- USA, which ANC was affiliated with and financially sustained by since its inception There are many of us in the Body that once were insiders that are no longer. I had never thought of that. In the end, people are going to follow their hearts/instincts. The bible is our guide, our toolbox for seeking a closer walk with him. We are all sinners, in need of Christs help every day, and the church should be helping people OUT of sin, whatever that sin is (including but not only just homosexuality) by prayer and loving guidance. Im also a millenial who thinks the evangelical church has become a joke. Do you just ignore those verses altogether? If I am wrong on this issue, I am practicing a form of self-justification and teaching self-justification. Praise His holy, beautiful name. Austin New Church is located in Austin, Texas. The author thought he had the dream job: pastoring a megachurch. I give God thanks that I am now the VP of a non-profit organization, where each day is a place of healing, care, and love. Get Directions . Not a single Christian thinks that a repentant sinner should be excluded from the Grace of God that is a strawman argument created by less-than-honest people with an agenda. Does JH submit to the elders of ANC, or do the elders of ANC submit to JH? Wednesday. Brian Austin Green Amid Split From Megan Fox Celebrates Father's Day With His Sons. And if they give you an unsatisfactory answer, do you disfellowship them or consider them apostate? I lay no claim whatever to being more healthy or loving than anyone else quite the opposite. Principles of Community | Reflections from Acts, LOCATION | The 04 Center2701 S Lamar Blvd, Austin, TX 78704, SERVICE | Sundays 10:30**Kids/Students Programming and Livestream available. Even if you hate me for it. Correction to above: That is, as one man and one woman? Should have read That is, as being expressed fully in marriage between one man and one woman?. But I could on and on and on with everyone here who says different and all I can do is just respond that you have to answer to God someday just like we all have to over whatever in our life. Home Blog Farewell Jen Hatmaker: the brutality of unhealthy religion. Jesus is in charge of me. Samantha's creative work has appeared in theatres, churches, and non-profit spaces. These are conversations for Christians about Christian doctrine, also. And it wasnt me but Jesus who said to lust in the heart is adultery, to hate in the heart is murder. I know it is hard to wrap your mind around it, but they took a procedural item and made it into a essential doctrine. MaintainingContaining I belong to a small Baptist denomination in Australia. Man, the irony. But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. I Corinthians 5:10-13 NKJV If you love someone enough to confront them, then personally (in person) is the way to go, or through private mail to media personalities. 2701 S Lamar Blvd Austin, TX 78704. What has happened to jen is not great! In my email exchange with Jared I got to see the human side of how that feels. Do you practice that yourself? My mind was changed BECAUSE of my seriousness of the Word, not in spite of it. Maybe pull your head out of your ass and realize that God would rather see people happy than have a tenth of the population relegated to loneliness and eventual rebellion against God. We all know deep down whats right and whats wrong. But the actual Gospel is this: That even while were sinners, Christ died for us! We tell local Austin news & weather stories, and we do what we do to make Austin, Round Rock, Georgetown, Dripping Springs, Bastrop and the rest of Central Texas a better place to live. Yes the 2nd chapter of Genesis is poetry. Many first century believers did, and we dont have real solid evidence that it ever was meant to be retired. He also said marriage was between a man and a woman only. Im hearing some noted preachers, and teachers of preaching, nervously proclaiming that the sermon is safe from the chatbot. If your deal is to call anyone with differing theological opinions a heretic Im not guessing its something I can change, but as a close friend of Jens I find a lot of this commentary nothing like the Jesus I love and serve alongside Jen. Sean Steckbeck: Your rhetoric is the stuff that drives my LGBT friends to suicide. Jesus does say if you love me you will keep my commands. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. That being said, the rise of the celebrity Christian/social commentator/preacher seems to exacerbate many of the issues Mike draws attention to. We need a new class in seminary and Bible schools: Communication 102 Using public media wisely examples from the Gospels and the Epistles. If we are gonna be gatekeepers and decide who is in and who is out, why do we ignore so many other passages and only pay attention to the six verses that are considered the clober verses. We cant offer the grace of Christ with a lie attached. His Holiness Lots of folks. I think its important, when considering Matt 18s instruction, to keep in mind how Jesus treated gentiles and tax collectors. So happy to read that you have been able to move on to a far healthier, happier place and wish you the very best for the future. We all have to look at the Word and let it weigh on us honestly and listen to what the Spirit may be saying through it. Notice that disagreeing with a persons position on a theological issue isnt one of them. What comes to mind is what God said when his people were sacrificing their children to Baal and Moloch: It never even entered my mind though He never gave the explicit command in the Law, Thou shall not sacrifice your children, we know its wrong. Jen already said how she came to her changed decision she isnt going to answer you one by one because 1. Im finding new eyes to see what it really means to follow the Messiah Jesus and it doesnt look like what I just experienced. No opposing historical views included. It certainly wasnt with venom, as has been seen in Hatmakers case. If you dont, how do you justify that? Is that a strict standard? Humanitarian. But since when have Christian leaders proven to have a thoughtful handle on what is essential and what is secondary in theology, and what is truly peripheral? http://www.sptsusa.org/not-my-kid/. Science maybe? If a writer takes a position which is opposite or in sharp contrast to the majority, that writer will encounter resistance. Please state facts, not falsehoods about what the Bible does or does not say. Cant we allow all of us to wrestle with our positions on all sorts of matters without feeling a need to correct? All of us know in our soul when somethings wrong. Both sides!). Constricting.Simulating.Seekin stop doing it. The building was originally Faith United Methodist Church since 1968 and in January of . Somewhat ironic, and perhaps some of the fellow congregants should have been listening more closely. I cant speak for all of Jens critics, but yes, a person with a platform that reaches millions of souls is important and it matters that they are presenting the right Gospel without wavering, and naturally people, myself, included, believe and want this Gospel to be clearly proclaimed no matter the cost. It is one of my favorite stories. He was talking about divorce, and the only reason he was talking about it in the first place was because the religious leaders were trying to fuck with him JUST LIKE THEY ARE DOING TO JEN HATMAKER. I apologize for such a long post. One form is that we are righteous and can get to heaven through out good deeds. Way too much dialogue is done publicly and its not healthy. You just made me so happy. After three years of intensive study, reading the Bible in its original languages, going deep into study with people of Faith on all sides of the issue.I came to see that the Bible didnt always say what I thought it did (or wanted it to). Predestination is referenced over a dozen times in Scripture. November 1: BH affirms his JHs position on FB. Sin is sin is sin. And Ive heard Rob Bell speak movingly about the cruel and unusual punishment meted out by his evangelical brothers.. Thank you for sharing your story and heartache. My misgiving with this article is whitewashing false teachers, since the subject is not about how to reach and love on homosexuals, but on how to deal with false teachers. Excellent thoughts regarding correction, Michael Frost. Because they are against what God says is wrong. But, please tell me, where did Jesus call it a sin ? They are for you to follow. The Body of Christ should do better than this! Thank you for being my intellectual superior and calling me out on that. Otherwise there is need for concern. Actually it is addressed in much of scripture. I am so tried WITH Vicky of the implication that those that support same-sex marriage are not serious about the Word of God. That was supposed to say. I would also ask, why do we tolerate certain sins in ourselves and others? Youre right-I have to say that it is God saying it-its all over the Bible- In like fashion, conservatives are trying to reason from Scripture why homosexual sex (as well as any sex outside of marriage, including LOOKING at another person with lust in your heart) is damnable sin but thanks be to God we are SAVED in CHRIST from it! About how a man and his wife, who is a man and woman, join together and become one flesh in a marriage covenant. At what point, in your thinking, does the church get involved? Get the bloodlust out of your system, people. I never did post anything publicly about my concerns with her stance, but she never did message me privately so I could have a conversation with her. I love the teachings and have met all of the offenders you have mentioned. These couples rejoiced, and told everyone how the church didnt need a senior pastor, and how they were going to now lead the church for the future. And with all due respect, wouldnt your theology investigation be better invested on this very important matter of salvation (affecting 100% of humanity) instead of the issue of homosexuality (affecting 3-5% of humanity)? Same with the others mentioned in the article. 2:24. Ive had to distance myself from several in the Christian community where I live following character assassination and some harassment. We should know by now what Gods word is. But the feeding frenzy around Jen Hatmaker isnt that. How do we go about that privately if the person does not respond to you? ConcernedMeasuring.Locating If you dont agree with it, then say so-though your wrong to disagree with it- but dont say something isnt there when it is. A church that brought me to Christ for the first time in my life, helped my family know and love God, led by a truly honest, good man, just vanished. Romans 1 is very very clear. I believe if someone publicly steps out of orthodoxy, it is fair to point out where you think they might be in error. Yes and amen. Your email address will not be published. conceived & written by Patrick Hillcinematography & editing by Dave and Sarah Kemper of Cloud Craft Studiosproduced by ANC Creativesfeaturing Patrick Hill, S A journey through ANC's first in-house art gallery, "Anticipating What Already Is." It should NOT be saying sin is A-OK. Im not fucking with anyone, man. Maybe if someone doesnt want to be attacked for their seemingly unorthodox views, especially when one is a public figure, they should keep their views privately. Since I dont know, Id ask a few questions in return I can agree that some Christians do not handle differences well, and that problems are handled in some with gossip, slander and unbiblical methods of correction. Who are you to decide that gay people need to live lonely lives.who cant even have a friend of the same sex because, heaven forbid, they might fall in love with them? Frankly, I cant believe we even are having a conversation about this. Yet, I find myself sobbing in my back yard as I listen, hoping no one hears . Do you not judge those who are inside? And in my opinion, if youre born gay, theres no greater sin than lying to yourself, pretending to be straight and failing your partner in marriage because you cannot TRULY be bonded to them. No, Jesus didnt specifically say its wrong to deliberately injure yourself, but you cant love your neighbor if you dont love yourself. January 14, 2008 05:00 AM. Wonder why the majority of the Christian Machine disdains you? Maybe he chased them with a whip in love, perhaps? To love your neighbor as yourself is not condoning sin or teaching sin is okay. Probably because such behaviour tends to be infectious; which is the feeding frenzy Mike Frost is talking about. Hey, Im not saying conservative evangelicalism is as bad as Jonestown, but I do know this: once the pack starts circling an identified victim theres very little stopping it. I encourage the author and those who agree with the author to please consider this line with regard to love and grace for people with a conservative point-of-view. But this, I humbly submit as just my opinion. Great question KB. Judging by the comments I see here some of you really, really need it. Shes just one person. 6406 N I-35 Suite 3100 Austin, TX, 78752. you are not God. You are mischaracterizing the way orthodox believers view Jen. People read Frank Schaffer! Seems so simple but we fail so often. Step back and have some one on one time with God because.let he who has no sin cast the first stone and when people do this and run her down you are TURNING PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD!!! "Meets at Jackies. Writers love to do this and then proclaim, Look! It was put out publicly by the husband I think on their Facebook page that they felt they were led to believe that as long as a homosexual couple are faithful to one another the its fine just like a normal marriage. Yes, Ryan, that is Gods plan. If you dont know where get a commentary or a Bible thst has an index of where versus are. How can you tell who is a false teacher and who is not (2 Peter 2:1-3)? The only concern I have about this is there is a difference in my view of confronting personal sin, or solving a personal conflict (which has a biblical process as to prevent gossip and slander); and confronting a public teaching. Also, you can say it all you want, but monogamous, consensual, same sex relationships are neither sinful, nor addressed in scripture At. It was also the official position of ANC. I understand that you think it is. But we should not bend Gods word with our own to meet the secular world. Sunday, May 28, 2022. Because this teacher is teaching self-justification for sin rather than justification through repentance and the cross. ANC: Austin New Church, Hatmakers church in Austin Its tiring to read all these comments urging us to root out heresy (as if Jen Hatmaker is a heretic). Have you ever held a rattlesnake or chugged a bottle of Clorox? Post-Bulletin, Austin MN. Furthermore, did you know that the Biblical Sabbath is on Saturday, not Sunday? That includes naming the ones doing the teaching. Thank you, and god bless each and Evey one of you. Or are you making the point that its ok to be harsh because of Jesus example at the temple? In the meantime, lets pray for our sister currently in the crosshairs of unhealthy religion, knowing that at any time it could be you or me who draws the ire of her detractors. I dont think anyone should be throwing their children out of their home-or berating them to the point of suicide. Lets all do our best to avoid generalities. Just my two cents. You just dont arrive at any conclusion that a Biblical marriage covenant is anything other than what Jesus said it was a man and a woman. http://bible.com/114/mrk.10.6-9.nkjv. The only difference is that no specifics are given on who is doing this, except for Piperwhich itself is doing exactly what we are being not to do. Another form of self-justification is that my sin is really not sin and therefore I do not need to confess and repent of my sin and take it to the cross. Your firmly held religious beliefs are personal. Hair style and food choice, andso many other abominations are overlooked. Jesus says tons of things. The Scriptures are clear that believers of the Christian faith often speak in tongues. In what universe is she to be held in the same standing as an ordained minister? While people are free to express themselves many ways sexually, to do so outside of the marriage bed is against the message of Jesus. Approach them directly; raise your concerns respectfully; where appropriate and reasonable, invite a third party into the discussion. When do people get to day sin is okay and not get reprimanded. I dont know what people are saying about this woman and I dont have a clue as to who she is, I couldnt care any less than I do right now. Matthew 10:34-39 NKJV. And you know I respect you, right? Communion Service and Homeless Community Grillout (Music by Miranda Dodson. May we proclaim the Gospel boldly and may we love with our lives those around us. Thats why you go first alone, then take a witness or two and finally tell the church. (Matt. 15 If your brother sins, go and show him his fault when the two of you are alone. I understand the point and process of biblical feedback. Jesus was not harsh with sinners; His only harsh words were for wayward religious leaders. We wont argue anyone into Kingdom of God. All of scripture is God breathed. Sorry but Jesus said nothing about a man and a woman only, as a matter of you require a man and a woman to make a marriage, no gays allowed they were ASKING him about DIVORCE, and how a man could give a woman a letter and divorce her. They base their beliefs on Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 which clearly state that water baptism is part of the salvation equation. When someone makes a public teaching, you are free to engage with that teaching and rebut it. When superstar Christians promote that agenda, in many peoples minds, it just increases the tendency towards this syncretism and there is genuine concern. And of COURSE he would use the same language they were using. This surely is something many evangelicals would agree with. Seems to me if the person in question is public about their position then the response to that position may be public too. If you come to faith in a Church of Christ service, they will often baptize you on the spot, lest you die in a car wreck on the way home and go to hell. High profile people in high profile ministries invite both high profile praise and high profile criticism, with no accountability on the part of those meting out the criticism. Some elders were not aware of this change in stance prior to the interview publication. Its not a respectful desire to explore matters of the heart, to find common ground, or to discern a way to live respectfully with differences on non-core beliefs. Our campus is more than just a building where we gather on Sundays. 144 views, 5 likes, 6 loves, 13 comments, 0 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Austin New Church: ANC 02-26-2023 Sunday Live Service 7:30 pm Primary Purpose Group - Online Only. I do agree with your comment to Link above, and I most certainly believe that the place for confrontation is not social media or blog posts. My PCA friends love John Calvin, Martin Luther, et al. 5/22/22 ANC 5-22-2022 Sunday Live Service ANC 5-22-2022 Sunday Live Service. If it is sin, theological self-justification is an affront to the cross. At the same time large swaths of the blogosphere blew up with the story, starting with Christian watchblogs and Christian feminist blogs and then spreading to atheist sites. When Jen Hatmaker wrote a raw and heartfelt blog about the pain shes been through over recent attacks and posted it on Good Friday, she was taken to task for daring to identify her pain with that of Christs. Theres a point to this but its not happening the right way. And maybe even a little doctrinaire? But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner not even to eat with such a person. It seems to be the only one you can quote here. If you work on the Sabbath, how do you justify that? They believe that we have free willthat we choose God. But an encounter with a homeless man who wanted his Texan boots changed all that. This is my view. Call off the attack dogs. Hello! My friend Brett Trapp pointed out several things that we have no unity on . Whether you're an old member or visiting for the first time we want you to know you that ALL are welcome at the Congregational Church of Austin. I couldnt take it any longer and chose to resign. It was also Jesus who affirmed what exactly a marriage covenant is when he said, from Genesis, that a man leaves his father and mother to cling to his wife and become one flesh. Start treating your sisters and brothers like sisters and brothers. This is a quote from the article. The Bible says that leaders are held to a stricter standard. Not someones opinion who, based on the limited comments on this post, appear to be more than a little arrogant. Original post: The Church is judgmentally and systematically abusing people within the Church for issues that are not central to the Gospel this needs to stop! They dont view her as a sister. Shes toast in their eyes. Not to slam the person personally. A church plant in 2008, our church has been nomads in a myriad of locations in the South Austin area. Do you keep Saturdays holy? The Bible implores us to reason with one another, and Paul reasoned with the crowds from the Scriptures to prove Jesus as messiah. Now I know youll pull the old , Well, Im not saying itGod is!, The God who said it is not good for the man to be alone is the same God who says, through Jesus, Some were made this way and some were born this way. I find many here lining up in a militaristic way about their faith. Austin Miniatures Western Church Wild West Cowboys Conte Compatible Marx TSSD. Its often very ugly. Were elders allowed to fulfill their roles as decision makers for ANC as outlined in Acts 15:1-2, or were those who disagreed with the change in position asked or encouraged to leave? Maybe then they could have seen how badly they were treating someone that was faithfully guiding a congregation that loved him dearly. God so loved the world, that means everything in it including sinners, god loves you. (Like you have pointed out, this isnt the first time something like this has gone down.) But we have GRACE. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Farewell Jen Hatmaker: the brutality of unhealthy religion, Its perfectly natural, not perfectly biblical, to desire the death penalty, A tale of two Christianities on its knees. Its a difficult place to beI feel like Im losing my home. Thanks, man. In January of 2018, after coming under the . Austin New Church 141 viewsStreamed 3 days ago 1:15:21 ANC 01-22-2023 Sunday Live Service Austin New Church 192 views Streamed 10 days ago 1:06:19 ANC 01-15-2023 Sunday Live Service Austin New. It will open us up to the new: while religion continues to be a profoundly important vehicle for personal and community identity it also embraces a humility borne of the awareness that our knowledge is partial we see through a glass only darkly. BH: Brandon Hatmaker, founding pastor and elder at ANC The Gospel is good news but it cuts us all of us to the core. Reasoning is not a heretical concept, but its reasoning from the Scriptures that she doesnt want to hear. 1:1-2. IN-PERSON | 2701 S Lamar Blvd, Austin, TX 78704 ONLINE | Facebook or YouTube I'M NEW HERE. He was in the middle of right-wing evangelical churchianity and he skewers it as it justly deserves to be skewered. And it was allowed. His Identity Those old theologians were big on grace and were vehement defenders of the idea that we acquire salvation by Gods grace alone, not by works (I agree with this). And I dont know anyone who doesnt love a little Righteous Anger. Denying that homosexuality is a sin is a form of self-justification! Re JH and accountability, its useful to look at the timeline of events that have led up to this. And if we as a group stand together and say this we are wrong? Or at least that is true for many. And God HATES divorce. What a terrible way to talk about Good Friday., http://www.holmeslybrand.com/culture/2017/4/21/jen-hatmaker-please-stop. If Jen Hatmaker was silent on the issue and started loving on homosexuals, nobody would say anything. And when I say hugs, I mean THE KIND A MAMA GIVES HER BELOVED KID." You write a blog slamming evangelical Christians, and in that blog state if you disagree with someone you should approach them individually rather than publicly as in a blog. And maybe that is good. The more I read the bible and the less I listen to others takes on it, the more I see how many people believe in manmade ideas. http://bible.com/114/1co.5.10-13.nkjv. Homosexuality isnt the only sin there are other sins but since this is the topic here being discussed-Well church is for everyone-its for the sick not the well. Wait. Yet, the Bible is clear that it was. Too many Christians want to make the OT is inerrant and infallible, except for cheeseburgers, beards, and pork chops. Austin New Church. This is a really big deal to members of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Sunday, May 28, 2022 Ascension Day. Back in the day, I was chatting with my Baptist pastor in my home church about what I was studying at Regent College with people like Packer, Peterson, and Walke and I was told that they werent really Evangelicals. Next up: ad hominen attacks on anyone that considers LGBT lifestyles anathema to a faith-driven life. $99.99 + $51.77 shipping. I am with Mike. What does he know? I tend to stay out of the dialogue because it only matters to Christians, and the same people who []. So I ask, is not healthy religion a figment of the imagination? We ought to love in truth and tell the truth in love. The C-List celebrity world you pursued comes with its pluses and minuses. We cant say its ok because peoples feelings might be hurt. Not as burnt toast. Do you believe that the earth was created in six days? His Awareness Thanks evangelical Christianity. Holly, let me guess: Youre heterosexual and married or in a relationship with a manmaybe you have kids. These people should NOT be leaders in teaching other Christians. PromotingSuppressing.Isolatin Then someone should have told that little catchphrase to Jesus when he chased people with a whip and turned over tables. Was the author referencing Jen as a wounded wolf? Hey Monica Don;t throw us all under the bus ouch! Maybe. And trust that if we surrender to his ways and obeys him he will show us the best life, full of the great things like peace and joy and fellowship with the creator of the universe. What good is it?! Wilshire Baptist Church, a Dallas-area congregation, voted in 2016 to extend full membership to homosexually active people, including leadership ordination and marriage officiation. I just ran across your blog recently. Its in alignment with the word of God because Paul said teachers have harsher judgment, and Jesus said those who teach people to break moral law will be called least in the kingdom. Such a natural fit. 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